Hate Mail Part Deux: The Hatening

You may all remember our first round of Hate Mail that we posted. Welcome to Part Deux. Unlike last time, I’ll add my comments above the emails.

I could go over the Very Important Points these folks have brought up, but really, we’ve been through this before. Everything written at the bottom of the first Hate Mail post still applies. No, we didn’t respond to any of these. We could have, but if someone looks at the posts on FUoS and they honestly think that we’re whining and wanting special treatment… well, what do you even say to that? “Sorry your sense of humour doesn’t intersect with ours, good luck in ranting against everything you failed to find funny on the internet”? The irony of someone taking the time to write at length about how we take things too seriously is more delicious than the sammiches from our kitchen.

Since we’re already here, I’ll re-emphasize a few things.

Don’t be a dick.

Don’t be a dick to a dick.

Don’t send pictures of dicks.

If someone else is a dick, report them. We want to stop hearing from people who think it’s useless to report. This is flat-out ridiculous, especially since it’s so easy to report people. You don’t even have to engage with the offender. Use the tools available to you — they were made to be simple and user-friendly for a reason. There are real people reading the reports you send. Companies like MS are aware of FUoS and we know they monitor our site, but FUoS is NO substitute for all of the additional data available to moderators if you report people using the built-in services. We’re a picture blog — they have databases, user records, timestamps, etc. I’ve updated the Submit! page to emphasize the importance of reporting jerks where your report can do the most good.

That said, we’d still appreciate it if you’d consider getting a screenshot and sending it along to us before blocking/deleting. ;)

Note that around the time of our first Hate Mail post, the site was written about in the gaming section of a Swedish national newspaper. (more on our Press page) We had a lot of Swedish traffic for a while, even managing to outpace North America. Anyway, the point is that language differences are likely why SOME of the following spelling errors occur. (Picture links slightly edited.)

_______________________________

From: Daniel <Lailaihei@live.se>
Subject: Lailaihei@live.se

Message Body:
http://blolpics.se/5242

Picture related.

Welcome to the Internet, People get trashtalked every day. Get used to it. Happens to me every game, even if i’m nice and try to be the bigger man they still type inappropriate, illogical stuff (Mostly about fucking my mom). But when it happens to you girls you have to make a site about it and complain that you are being treated differently? Or have i missed the reason for why this website even excist? Don’t know how you do when you play but most of the women i meet when i’m playing online they all act the same way. “Yepp guys, i’ts a girl. Playing. Adore me and gief boost so i can be way better, and please treat me like a godess cause’ this is probably the first and only time you can talk to a girl” <- That attitude, I’m sure most of the people online who meets a girl like that got the same opinion as me. And after meeting that kind of a gamer, you really don’t care if the other women you play with are nice, you start trashtalking them. Like you trashtalk any gamer you don’t
like.

Hope you reply back!

_______________________________

From: Old mate jimmy <spamlord@live.com>
Subject: eh

Message Body:
i don’t understand this site, i mean is it humour you are going for? or are you trying to point out that women are somehow more insulted than men in online games.

Frankly i never understand why women go to such lengths just to show off the “abuse” they cop, it’s like you wear it almost as a badge of honour, anyway, i think you are all self righteous egotistical scumbags

_______________________________

From: idontbelivethisshit <lol@hotmail.com>
Subject: Go back to the kithchen where you belong.

Message Body:
Hahaha, lol i can’t stop laugh, this is so pathetic.
As mentioned before, everyone flames people over videogames/internet, men can take it. Attention whores like you//girls make websites.
Nuff said.
Redicoulous.

_______________________________

From: Alex <fintarn@gmail.com>
Subject: Really

Message Body:
Welcome to the internet, its not just ‘female gamers’ that get these insults, we all do. If its not fat ugly or slutty its low life, fag, whatever. Stop crying & move on.

_______________________________

From: you are all whores <whores@whores.com>
Subject: stupid ugly whores

Message Body:
whores

_______________________________

From: xDee <bawxes@hotmail.com>
Subject: Makes me laugh how people can be stupid

Message Body:
So you got some hatemail… SO WHAT?

We’ve all got those before, it’s part of the gaming community (especially when we’re talking about STEAM AND CONSOLES)

Some asshole online will call you fat because it’s an insult. If it was a guy, he’d be calling him a faggot or a nigger.

Jesus fucking christ, stop pretending that you’re something special.

_______________________________

From: Jefferson Rimmer <jtr2you@yahoo.com>
Subject: YouHappentoMissaspot

Your website as well as you reinforce this stereotype:

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/153/c/7/Girl_Gamers_by_FizTheAncient.png

Good job.
Go back to playing cooking mama.

_______________________________

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    Well,

    I sure hope you fat, ugly sluts know how redicoulous you look, complaining about stuff that doesn’t matter to guys!! As a matter of fact, here are a list of racist, homo- and transphobic terms in common usage, to show you how arrogant you are to pretend you are any better than them!

    SIGNED,

    A STRAIGHT WHITE MALE, BECAUSE THAT IS NORMAL.

    ಠ_ಠ

  • Anonymous

    Self righteous, egotistical SCUMBAGS REPRESENT! I love the word scumbag lolol

  • http://twitter.com/PMSGallow Jen || Gallow

    It constantly amazes me that people still have the audacity to write things like this. Saying women gamers shouldn’t complain about being abused because ‘it’s just a game’ or how they should ‘take it like a man’ – as if men are somehow immune to feeling degraded in games – somehow makes it alright to continue or perpetuate verbal abuse and the degradation of a female (or male) gamer.

    It’s not alright, women (and men) shouldn’t have to ‘get over it’ because it’s ‘just a game’. It’s WRONG.

    This website might have been made for the LULz but, personally, I think it’s about a lot more than that. This is what is really happening online, in games, where we all play. Women are more likely to be targeted for abuse than males because of the stereotypical roles a male dominated society has put women in. Not all men attack women gamers and not all attacks come from men, but the attacks are happening and no matter what anyone thinks IT’S NOT RIGHT.

    As for that stereotype portrayed in that dubious /art/? That’s just one more example of how people find justification in their bad behavior. True, there are some women gamers out there that have this attitude but, ten to one, most women you find playing games are there to PLAY THE GAME and could give two shits less about gender. And again, TEN TO ONE, it’s the male gamers that make the female gamer’s gender an issue. Not always but, yeah: ten to one.

    Jesus fucking christ, stop thinking women gamers need to suck it up and, ya know, STOP THE ABUSE to begin with.

  • http://twitter.com/_gtz_ gtz

    as if men are somehow immune to feeling degraded in games

    yesssssssss thank you. The differences between misogyny/misandry and feminism is a pet-argument of mine. I fly into a rage when people interpret feminism as “women are superior to men” and proceed to be complete jackasses to men.

    The implication that you bring up is subtle, but it’s definitely present and has a slightly misandrist slant. It follows the notion that men don’t have feelings, or that men should buck up and ignore any feelings they do have. Thanks so much for pointing it out.

  • Anonymous

    Haters gonna hate. Simple as that. I’m pretty sure at least one of these guys has his stupidity posted on the site somewhere…..

  • Anonymous

    I do love the “Whores” guy. He went all out to create an email address just to flame you. And then he followed through with a message that is not even a complete sentence.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    I see what you’re saying, but I’m not sure it applies here.

    When the topic of internet and IRL abuse, slut-shaming, and sexual harassment of women comes up in the sphere of feminist discussion, it’s really ok for women to be talking about women for just a minute, and not have the conversation be about men, what they experience, and how they feel as well. A woman talking about women’s feelings and experiences is not EXCLUDING men, or hating them, she’s just taking a brief vacation from living in a patriarchal hierarchy that treats males and masculinity as the default gender to deal with something that is not entirely centered around men, even if it deals with them peripherally. In that context, GOLLY does it get tiresome when some well-meaning (or possibly not, it’s hard to tell the difference sometimes) individual joins the conversation to point out that men get abused/raped/denigrated, too, HAVE YOU LADIES EVER THOUGHT OF THAT? I’m not saying you’re doing this, I’m just pointing it out.

    It’s hard to be polite about it, sometimes, even when it is out of ignorance rather than malice, in part because it comes off as “Wait a moment, you should be talking about MEN! Why aren’t you talking about MEN? Do you hate MEN?”

    It’s hard to be nice, and polite. It’s hard to smile, and use noncombative language. Unfortunately, all of these are expected from women who talk about life experienced as a woman, even when they are being invalidated, oppressed, and being asked to participate in their own oppression by people who want to dilute the message, or view the questioning or lessening of male privilege as a violation of male rights.

    It’s true, there are some very bitter, injured, and some just-plain-spiteful women out there lumping all men into one big group, but I find that a lot of claims of misandry are a misunderstanding of the idea that it’s really ok for women sometimes not to constantly reassure any men who happen to be listening that they’re different, that they’re included, and they’re always at the forefront of our conscious thought.

    That having been said (and I will stop talking eventually, I promise…), I. like many other feminists, talk about, welcome, and join with & support men in their struggle to redefine the global and local cultures of manhood and masculinity to a more healthy and inclusive path, and one which doesn’t wield gender prescriptivism like a club.

  • Dayne

    There’s a game called “Cooking Mama”?? Where is this game? I’m in need of cooking lessons.

  • Anonymous

    Just because something happens often and to a lot of people, doesn’t mean it’s alright or insignificant. No one should ever get used to being abused, still less to tell other people that’s what they should do, or be silent about it. Thanks again for posting the hate mail you’ve received. A lack of logic is apparent in those posted.

    If verbal abuse is common in online gaming, shouldn’t we have more reason to try even harder to change the culture? If there are a lot of stupid things being said to women, wouldn’t it mean a site like this has more reason to exist, so we’ll have more things to laugh at? I just don’t subscribe to the attitude of defeatism that some people may have regarding change, and I do believe things can change for the better. Welcome to the internet, indeed.

  • Anonymous

    Well said. Your point about privilege reminded me of Bioware’s David Gaider’s reply to a poster.
    I agree that it really is okay to be talking about and focusing on a particular group for just a minute. That is not the same as excluding all the other groups out there.

  • Anonymous

    Hm. I’m hesitant to go against the general flow here, but I’m seeing a theme here where people don’t like the idea of being able to shrug off the things others say, and that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

    Learning to not let the negative things that people say (especially from strangers) affect you adversely is only a good thing. I will agree the need for the ability is unfortunate, but does it really make sense to demand a change in everyone else and refuse to adapt yourself?

    I’m am totally for trying to change the culture, but even if we succeed, there will be the outliers who will make the resistance still very useful.

  • http://twitter.com/_gtz_ gtz

    Perhaps I shouldn’t have brought it up. I might have overstepped by talking about some of the people (both men and women) who use the word feminism inappropriately. This might be the nature of it being one of my pet-arguments; maybe I see it when it isn’t always there and look for places to “find” it. This could also be related to my strong desire for FUoS to not be 100% sexist-against-women content. I like a little variety in my basket of stupid.

    Seeing the depth of your reply and the echoes of the people you describe in there (whom I don’t believe I was emulating — but I obviously stirred some sort of recognition, so there’s something to be said for that) makes me think that it’s another discussion for another place and time. Carry on! :)

  • http://twitter.com/_gtz_ gtz

    Not sure what you’re saying here. Thick skin is fine, of course! But put into the context of video games where women are often barraged with awful things that people obviously weren’t aware of, and I’m losing your point a little bit here. On a list of “things I should have to add to my personality to survive in the world” I don’t feel that I should have to add “shrug off a large quantity of requests to see my breasts in a video game.”

    It’s going to happen, sure. But there’s no reason to not report it, and some folks have suggested that the default action of “ignore and move on” (implicit acceptance) has helped this shit get to where it is today. It’s not exactly about refusing to adapt, it’s taking an honest look and evaluating of the situation and concluding “Hey, this is bad and there’s way too much of it. I’m going to perform a small action (reporting) to try and stop this instance of it.”

    Remember when I said I generally don’t get involved in comment discussions? OOPS. :V (I’m going to regret this)

  • Anonymous

    Oh. I certainly think that everyone should report someone being sexist, racist, or just a bully. All I’m saying is that a person should not let stuff like that ruin their day or discourage them from gaming.

    You know, just before I started coming to this site, I was at PAX East ’11 and I had sit in on a panel about women in gaming and the pervasive misogyny in the gaming culture. I left the panel believing how terrible it was for women. The funny thing is, after I started to hang out here, I wasn’t sure what to believe anymore.

    You say that women are often barraged with awful things while playing online, but if that were true, then it seems like FUoS would update more than once a day. Then again, I don’t know how many submissions you guys reject. I’m also surprised by the content of the grief given, as I would expect the average post to be much worse. Now some of the posts are truly vile stuff, but much of what’s put out there is just rude and obnoxious hurt little boy stuff. Or creeper stuff, which has been a problem of society forever, exaggerated by the anonymity of the internet and the ease to talk to many different people.

    Eh. Well, I kinda got off topic there.

  • http://twitter.com/serencadi Cadi

    For some (maybe a lot? Who knows when the ablist “just shrug it off” angle is so commonly thrown around) of people, it isn’t a case of _learning_ to not let it affect them. There are people who just can’t help being hurt or affected by the things people say. And besides those who get abuse have usually already been “shrugging it off” already. After a while, isn’t it those being mean and abusive who should have a go at just not being dicks? :)

  • Anonymous

    I think the world would be a better place if people weren’t dicks to each other. However, I don’t really want to say what people should or shouldn’t do without some qualifiers. I think if a fair person expected change from others, then they would expect change from themselves. I also think that it’s much easier to change oneself than others.

    I don’t believe that people are incapable of developing the thick skin it takes to endure the verbal abuse… Not without some kind of illness or something. It maybe be more difficult for some, just as I find it very difficult to get into a routine where I buy groceries and cook my own dinner, but I don’t expect any sympathy for my failings as a human being.

    I think the belief in one’s own inability to develop the metaphorical thick skin is largely a societal influence. There’s still the tendency to encourage the ability to confront others in boys and it’s more discouraged in girls. In the past, I’ve been shocked at worked when a woman told me she couldn’t do a given task because she was just a girl. I know there are women out there who believe they’ve reached their limit when it’s only a construct of society.

  • http://twitter.com/_gtz_ gtz

    We have about 50ish posts/submissions in the queue right now. Rejection rate is pretty low. 5-10% maybe? Might change over time. /info

    I think it works better to spread them out, give people time to laugh at each of them and think about how bad it was. In some cases, the discussion centres around whether it was it bad at all or exactly how borderline it was, which is something I still see as worthwhile.

  • http://twitter.com/GAR1021 G.A.R.

    lol. i bet a good majority of the hatemail is from people that found their gamer tag on the site.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry to say that I’m one of those people that can’t help but be made upset by harsh comments. Even though I know that all the people who insult others are ignorant fools, I can’t stop myself from getting mad. I hate that I get pissed off whenever someone insults me, because getting pissed off just makes them the winners.

    I despise people that boast about their “skill” or put others down to bring themselves up. I don’t do any of that, and I feel no hate towards anyone who is a different race, religion, or gender than me. Even if they’re annoying, I forgive them and do my best to find a redeeming quality in their personality.

    I try to be such a good person to everyone else, but the people who don’t infuriate me. No matter how hard I try, their insults make me wish that I could teleport to their house and beat the shit out of them. I even have to take breaks from my Xbox when an insult angers me enough, because my head just starts hurting like Hell from the rage I feel.

    However, this site is actually helping me.

    Reading all the messages that are posted and then reading the comments people have made about them has allowed me to find some humor in them, rather than just feelings of animosity. I still detest the people who made the worst of the messages, but those feelings might someday be replaced by pity and laughter.

  • http://twitter.com/PMSGallow Jen || Gallow

    I am surprised, not all pleasantly but well enough, that there’s been discussion beyond this point – _gzt_ and mélange à treides, thank you for expanding on my inclusion and further more on the topic of male privilege in context to the discussion. I’m grateful to seen a well thought out discussion rather than what I knew could possibly disenigrate into disaster.

    However, OgreJehosephatt…you make take pause and wonder just what your avenue is other than shifting blame and ignoring the issue. No, I’m not attacking, just wandering. It seems to me that you’re mirroring, rather more elegantly, what one of the authors of the hate mail has said: “Women need to get over it. In your words, interpreted of course, “Women need to grow a thicker skin and shrug off the negativity they’re being subjected to and be ‘the bigger man’ about their experience.”

    You’re making a type of tone argument and though you’re entitled to your opinions on the matter I believe you’re not quite understanding the depth of the problem at hand. I suspect a privilege is inhibiting your comprehension in this area and I understand that it can be noticeably hard for someone to understand the trails and tribulations of another when they are on opposite sides of the gender equations. (Not to demean or simplify, but I’m taking the male/female model to its root and including whomever identifies as female as the whole of female and those that identify as male as the whole of male, just for clarification purposes.)

    You are, in essence, stating, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that women need to change themselves first and foremost before they can expect others to change. I find that, inherently, conceded, to be frank, and can’t accept that as a whole. In part I do agree that women, as a whole, should be willing to change with the times, adapt to new situations and be open to experiences that they might otherwise not be comfortable or familiar with. What I cannot, and will never, agree with is the idea that women, as a whole, should change themselves in order to expect any sort of respect from others in this; wherein a women who is being verbally abused/degraded should buck up, accept that this is happening and thus must first question herself, asking what she might have done to prevent this type of assault before she should ever call the abuse what it is and fire back, whether that course of action is reporting the person or sending back a message that airs her ire/unease/disgust/whathaveyou.

    Are you thus saying that women shouldn’t be as upset by the things happening to them in an online setting – not taking into account that this sort of thing happens even offline, in the real world, with often worse instances than verbal abuse – and should somehow not be as affected by the negativity and learn to better themselves first before trying to address the issue?

    I really am confused by what you’ve written. Truly. And, please, don’t point out to me that you are simply trying to point out that you were simply trying to qualify that people should be able to grow and accept that bad things happen because, seriously, that is a bit insulting. Though I point out here, that I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, I’m simply offering you what I’ve, perhaps unfairly, expect in some respects to counterarguments and what I’m unwilling to accept of them.

    In closing, and this is simply what I would do: If someone sent me a message that was utterly offensive, degrading to not only my gender but myself, personally, I’m going to be upset by it. I’m not going to simply shrug it off even if that is what ultimately happens. I’m going to address it point blank in many ways and maybe on of those ways is to submit something to FUoS. What I will not do is try to figure out what I did to incur such an attack and ignore the person that’s doing the attacking in some moral high ground non-response.

    Abuse is wrong it would sure be nice if people weren’t dicks, but shrugging off both it and their behavior isn’t going to do anything but exacerbate and already out of control problem. So, no, I think I’d prefer if people voice their complaints in whatever fashion they are comfortable with especially if it empowers others to follow suit. This type of thing shouldn’t be kept quiet nor should it be ‘shrugged off’.

    The point here is, people, women especially, shouldn’t be asked, subtly or directly, to develop a thicker skin. They should not be blamed for their inability, as you’ve deemed it, to do so. Whether it is societal influence or not makes little difference when it’s a matter of respect for a person as a whole and not as a gender.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    Not at all. I was thinking afterwards that I might have come down a little heavy – thank you for taking it in the spirit I meant! I tend to get a bit wordy when it comes to capital-P Privilege (and Patriarchy) and I have to take care I *don’t* alienate people who want to learn, and know, and be heard! :)

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    As a longtime gamer-lady, it is pretty terrible (although in a lot of ways it’s a lot better, in some ways it isn’t) and it is possible to still laugh about terrible things – largely because we’re not alone. This site is valuable because it lets us see how common our experience is, and it helps set up our abusers as ridiculous caricatures, instead of scary weirdos.

    Laughter recognises shared pain, after all. The fact that we can talk about it openly here, and have our male allies see it and go, “what the fuck, are you SERIOUS?” is awesome, too. Stuff can be serious in scope, but funny in specifics. Am I making sense?

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    It is not the duty and responsibility of the oppressed and abused to adjust their reactions until it doesn’t hurt anymore. How we choose to react to and deal with our abuse is our business, and it in no way lessens the shittiness of the abuser, or his or her responsibility not to be shitty.

    Shit on that. With all due respect, and with the recognition that you are exploring the idea and mulling it over, and not actively seeking to tell women to sit down and shut up; nevertheless, shit ALL OVER that.

    IT IS NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO TEACH OUR OPPRESSORS TO BE BETTER PEOPLE.

    That’s not yelling, that’s emphasis – just so I am being clear. :)

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    Yeah, exactly. This shit is upsetting, and scary sometimes, and unpleasant, but being able to share in it and see other women dealing with it by dragging it into the sunlight to watch it smoke and steam is SO GOOD.

    This shit is powerful because it is done in secret. making it public, and open, and opening it up to public ridicule and judgment makes all of the difference in the world, and so does knowing we aren’t alone.

    You go, girl.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    Yes, this is a much more nuanced response than my shouty-shout up there, I should have read further down.

    So yeah: this.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a difference between not being able to shrug something off, and not choosing to shrug something off. Personally, I don’t take insults directed at me to heart, yet I don’t always choose to leave them be. Why? I laugh at the abusive language, but at the same time I’m outraged at the idea of a person abusing another person. To me, it might not be the actual act of abuse itself, but it’s definitely the idea of abuse that I take issue with. The idea of abuse (which gets manifested in abusive acts) is not acceptable, and needs to go. No one should be content with an abusive situation.

  • http://twitter.com/jade_everything Jade Carver

    THIS THIS THIS, so much this!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GZNLRKYXC6WHLM3IPKYPNJHLNI Troni O.o

    **Saying women gamers shouldn’t complain about being abused because ‘it’s just a game’ or how they should ‘take it like a man’ **
    **Women are more likely to be targeted for abuse than males because of the stereotypical roles a male dominated society has put women in.**

    Most people on this thread haven’t specifically said that women gamers can’t complain, they’re just saying its the norm….
    NO, it shouldn’t happen! No one should be bullied/ abused. But do we really need to make a huge thing of it specifically because we’re women?

    I play World of Warcraft and I’m a chick – I rarely get abuse, but it does happen… Then again my husband also plays and he gets around the same amount, if not more actually than I do.

    Rant over =P

  • http://twitter.com/PMSGallow Jen || Gallow

    Outright saying, no. Implying, yes. It’s a fine line between the two, in all honestly, because the way that it is read implies, heavily, that women (in general) should be able to shrug it off, should grow that ‘thick skin’ in order to help shrug something like that off. And regardless, it’s considered the /norm/ and that’s the problem.

    I’m slightly confused, yet again (this is becoming a trend, I see). Are you suggesting that we don’t make a big deal out of abuse that happens because we’re women or because you find making a big deal out of abuse repugnant? Please, clarify if you would be so kind because I’m getting the distinct notion of: “Stop your /bitchin’/ women, it’s not that bad”.

    Your case isn’t going to be like someone else’s, just keep that in mind. You, yourself, stated that abuse does happen so you’re well aware that women gamers are targeted by both genders (and yes, male gamers as well from both genders). So to say, “Well it doesn’t happen to me” doesn’t suddenly make it better for everyone else. I’m very glad you don’t run into it that often. I just wish others could say the same.

    And to end: If we don’t complain, who would know there was a problem? If we don’t strike back, it will continue to happen. If we do not get upset, why should anyone give a crap about trying to change things?

  • http://student20productions.wordpress.com Eric Waters

    I love this site – I just wanted everyone to know that. From its concept to the treatment of hate mail, this is a simply fantastic idea. It’s actually very, very important for sites like this to exist, and not just so that I can start every morning by shooting hot coffee out my nose.

    People don’t seem to realize that there’s a difference between the normal abuse males receive during game (i.e. normal smack talking) and the abuse women recieve when engaging in the same hobby (i.e. unwanted sexual advances, threats of violence, personal insults). The one is because we’re all people enjoying a competitive hobby together, and smack talking is part of competition. The other is because they are women.

    There is no defense for this behavior. You want to send that female gamer a message saying “Haha- hey ur sucky @ Halo I sniped u like 5 times” – more power to you. My fiancée would welcome that sort of thing – it’s hilarious, and it perfectly appropriate within the context of a competitive event. Instead, she gets things “Want to be my xbox girlfriend?” and “Your avatar is hot – does it look like you?” and worse.

    Here’s the thing, guys (by which I mean males): we can’t understand what that’s like. It doesn’t happen to us. At the very least, it doesn’t happen to us every damn day. And telling women they need to be thinker skinned about it is like telling black people they should get over white people calling them by the “n” word. It’s an assertion based on a complete lack of understanding about the situation.

    I want to thank Fat, Ugly, or Slutty for existing. You’re a fantastic, hilarious, and wonderful blog. You’re also probably the best way to raise awareness of how things are for women in gaming.

    And for all you folks saying they should suck it up? Have you ever heard the particularly loathsome expression “Don’t hate the playa, hate the game?”

    Have you ever seen a game of Monopoly play itself? Without players, there is no game. Women don’t need to “suck it up” – men need to come down hard on their fellow males who engage in this misogynistic, douche-baggy behavior. Preferably before my daughter is old enough to have her own Xbox Live account…

  • Anonymous

    Uhhh…. I’m a dude. The people that make these comments still piss me off, because no one deserves to receive insults of any kind. Unless they were the first to give them, of course.

    I’m not gay either, if that thought crosses your mind.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    My apologies! Your post could be interpreted either way, so I defaulted to “lady”. No biggie.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    Eric, you the Real Deal.

  • Anonymous

    Whoa. A lot to respond to.

    Jen, when I say that people are better off growing a thicker skin, I really do mean all people. Men and women. I have a male friend who doesn’t like playing online just because he hates being called a “n00b”. His life would be better if he didn’t let others ruin his good time so easily.

    Of course our environment (and the folks within) influence our moods, but ultimately it is up to the individual who chooses how to react. People really can choose not to be angry if they’re willing to do it.

    You will never find happiness if you continue to compare yourself with others.

    “…I believe you’re not quite understanding the depth of the problem at hand. I suspect a privilege is inhibiting your comprehension in this area and I understand that it can be noticeably hard for someone to understand the trails and tribulations of another when they are on opposite sides of the gender equations.”

    Jen, do you really not see the irony in this? How do you know what it’s like to be a man? How else can you tell that women have it so much harder, other than experiencing both genders? What research have you put into this?

    It is because I am not female and I don’t know many female gamers that I instantly believed women when they said they were treated much worse than men in games. It took nothing more than their word to convince me.

    I’m eager to help combat all forms of unjust discrimination, so I was happy when I stumbled upon FUoS. As I said before, the funny thing about FUoS is that I didn’t see what I had expected to see. I thought I would see something that would corroborate with the claims that women gamers faced constant, deep-cutting aggression due solely to their gender, but much of what is posted is pretty mild. Much of what I see here, if I had been on the receiving end, I wouldn’t think twice about it. I wouldn’t even think that these jeers would need thick skin to resist.

    Still, I’m open to more evidence and hearing more perspectives. I’m interested in getting to the truth of the matter, not making a case for a particular side.

    While I feel there much more for me to learn, I think it’s pretty clear that not all women gamers are the same. There seems to be a tendency for the women here to think that all women think and feel the same way they do. There are women who don’t think they’re picked on more than men. There are women in games who like to bring up the fact that they’re female to get favors and attention. My roommate says all but one of the women in his WoW guild sucks at the game and is always asking for handouts.

    I feel that ignoring these other types of women helps distort your own perspective.

    Also, I really hate that you talk of male privilege and insinuate that I take advantage of it. Really, I’m this close to totally losing my shit. Clearly there is a bias in society to put men is positions of power– after all, all the US presidents were male– but the way you use the term, you seem to suggest that all men have inherently better or easier lives. That’s just wrong. And if this is what you actually believe, then you are making your own monster.

    Anyways…

    I’m not telling anyone (even women) that they should develop a thick skin. I would think they would be better off. I think it would solve the problem because it would take the power away from the harassers. I know it works for me, but it is, ultimately, up for the individual to decide.

    I think it’s absurd for people to say that people shouldn’t or can’t develop thick skins. Furthermore, I think it’s hypocritical for these same people to demand change (no matter how righteous) in others.

    This is in part of why I love FUoS so much. It isn’t demanding change in the culture. It just says, “if you say dumb stuff, we’re gonna laugh at it and make you famous. If the culture changes, great. If not, well, we’ll have more to laugh at!” It’s a very positive way of dealing with the issue.

    I also want to reiterate that when I say stuff like, “shrug it off”, I don’t mean to completely ignore it. Just don’t let it ruin your day. Back in the early aughts when I played PC games online, if someone was being racist (especially if they had the n-word in their name), I’d vote to kick the player. Failing the vote, I’d just find another server to play on. And it’s not like I really find the n-word personally offensive, but I hate how folks will do anything just to piss others off. But as soon as the offending person was out of my sight, I never spent another thought on them. I chose to enjoy the game instead.

    mélange à treides: It’s way, way, way past my bed time so I’ll have to respond to you later, though I think you can apply much of what I said to Jen to what you’ve said to me.

  • http://profiles.google.com/skyhawkmkiv Sean Campbell

    I think they miss the point of this site entirely. The point here is not to “bitch and cry” (their quote), the point is to make these people look like morons. Which they do a good job of proving time and again. Keep up the good work!

    BTW, am I the only one who uses “dude” as an androgynous term?

  • http://profiles.google.com/wharghoul Evan Reif

    What I think is strange, and this is not an indictment of any of you, as I think shaming misogynistic man children is always a good idea, is that although there is now some awareness of women’s issues in games, the race issue is still not addressed by even the most progressive minded people.

    I mean, words like nigger are thrown around like they were articles. The depiction of black people in video games is at best a shitty action movie stereotype and at worst is an outright racist caricature that you can just see some white developers snickering while they made.

    It gets even worse when these games are consumed by their target audience. Go look up some let’s plays for the 50 Cent game and you’ll see what I’m on about here. Even those people that don’t display outright racism still have a sort of “LOL BLACK PEOPLE ARE STUPID APES THAT EXIST FOR MY AMUSEMENT” sort of attitude.

    I tend to take a more Marxist view of things, in that I believe that oppressed people should unite and work together to end oppression for everyone, instead of breaking themselves up to fight their own little battles, so it baffles and upsets me to see this issue so totally ignored.

  • Anonymous

    Probably not. I don’t, but I don’t use it all that often either.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    The very first comment on this blog post – mine, in fact – addresses that very thing.

  • http://twitter.com/postfremenist mélange à treides

    I’m glad your unacknowledged privilege is still functioning smoothly for you. Keep us updated.

  • http://profiles.google.com/wharghoul Evan Reif

    Most Internet marxists are also either 16 year old kids or trolls. I am neither.

    The struggle of women is very important, and one of the prime battlegrounds of class struggle. I am opposed to ALL forms of discrimination. It’s just a simple pillar of Marxist doctrine (And indeed, most left wing doctrines, for that matter) that there is a common enemy to all oppressed people, and unless unified, they can never hope to defeat it.

    I think you have had the unfortunate experience of encountering some Maoist Third-Worldists, and I am sorry for you. Those kids are morons. While it is in fact true that you have it better than most women on this earth, that doesn’t mean you are not the target of oppression and bigotry, nor does it mean one shouldn’t resist it. However, one cannot throw around accusations of unrealized privilege without realizing their own.

    I did not imply that you are denying any racial issues. I just said people seem very afraid to talk about them. Seeing as you are apparently a feminist of some stripe, I may remind you that many of the women you fight for are brown. Racial issues should be part of the feminist struggle.

    For example, why is it that women of African descent are told that they must straighten their hair and lighten their skin to be attractive? Even women who would otherwise be considered beautiful must suppress all her African characteristics to be seen in a positive light by a great deal of people.

    This is an issue which should not be ignored by feminists, but sadly I see it happening quite often. Perhaps you don’t, but I’ve known more than a few who do.

    Anyway, that was quite a rant for a blog about video games. How about we just agree we both should be just as pissed off when you hear people throwing around “nigger” like it’s a common pronoun as when they call women bitches or sluts?

  • Anonymous

    Awesome. So now you don’t have anything to contribute except for attempts to rile me. Don’t you realize that saying stuff like that is just going to encourage others not care about your problems?

  • Anonymous

    You know, you don’t actually have to be a woman (or a man) to see the difference in treatment for male and female in a video game. You can use a female (or male) avatar. In fact, in online gaming, quite a number of people have used avatars of a different gender than their own, or have experimented with both genders.

    Do female avatars have a greater tendency to ask for favours, or do people have a greater tendency to remember it when it’s a female avatar that does it? I don’t know. I have certainly seen a lot of male avatars asking for favours.

    Also, do you not think it’s possible for someone to have developed “a thick skin”, *and* still chooses to not let the issue slide? They aren’t incompatible, I don’t understand why you chose to stress only the former while people are just talking about the latter. Doing only the former just prolongs the problem indefinitely. You can shrug it off and avoid the bigots all your life, but bigotry wouldn’t magically disappear just ’cause it’s not on your mind. Inaction only makes it the problem for someone else to deal with, that’s not solving it.

    I see absolutely nothing wrong in demanding a change in the culture if you think something’s wrong, after all, that’s a form of citizen participation in modern society.

  • Anonymous

    Just give it up Ogre. I’ve ran into the same problem with a few people. No matter what you say they will almost always have a counter-argument and if they don’t? Well, they’ll still respond with something negative. Hell, to be honest, I thought you were going to be the same way. However you proved me wrong.

    Don’t care if I get flamed for this. Just proves my point more.

  • http://nodanaonlyzuul.tumblr.com Crystal Lynn

    Eric Waters nailed it. Bravo.

  • Anonymous

    Shad (may I call you “Shad”?), did you read what I wrote? I think it’s extremely possible to have a thick skin and not let the issue slide. It’s why I’ve said multiple times that people should report offenders. I told a story where I explained how I do my best to exclude the offenders from the games I play.

    I do think the world would be better off if folks were diligent in shunning or educating the assholes. I’ve said this!

    The reason why I stress personal strength in the face anonymous dickishness is due to statements like, “No one should ever get used to being abused, still less to tell other people that’s what they should do” (Ha! Now that I look back, it was you who said it!) And others echoed the sentiment. I think it’s irresponsible to promote the idea that it’s bad to be able to endure abuse… to have the thick skin. And I think it’s a very good idea to encourage others to develop the ability as well.

    In fact, I think FUoS is going a long way into doing that. It teaches people that you can react a different way to online harassment. You don’t have to get angry or sad, but instead you can have a laugh. This is, in part, what the metaphorical thick skin does.

    I don’t think we disagree as much as the length of our replies would suggest.

    I am all for changing the culture, and I think the spirit behind FUoS is something that can see it through. I’m excited by that prospect. I was just talking about a specific tone in the conversation that I think it unhealthy for the greater cause. Much as it was explained how speaking about feminist issues doesn’t mean folks are excluding all other groups, it just means they (and I) were just talking about something more specific in the overall scheme of things.

    —–

    I also would like to be perfectly clear and say that I wasn’t trying to suggest that women ask for handouts more than men. I would believe that women will use their gender to instigate handouts more than men. Not that men are above that behavior, but not enough folks will be enamored by the fact a player was male to make the peacocking worth it.

    I brought it up because it has a few interesting impacts. The first is that people here seem to feel like they can speak for all women, though that isn’t true. Secondly, the loud-minority many times is a destructive force in any group. I think turning some attention onto preventing that is worthwhile in helping to clean up misogynistic perceptions about the female gamers. Third, the males who stereotype women this way are probably the most easily converted of all the dicks on the web. They just need to see that most female gamers aren’t like that. They’re just responding to the one’s who make themselves visible.

    —–

    Flipping your gender on your avatar will only get you so far. Especially nowadays where most people do it. Personally, no matter the gender of the avatar, I have the tendency to assume that the player is male until I see evidence otherwise. It’s probably not the best way to do it, but I end up being right most of the time.

  • http://twitter.com/Ilan121 Ilan Raschkovsky

    I honestly can’t stand the fact that some of these people think that hate is part of the gaming community. its people like that that bring such a shameful reputation to real gamers everywhere. Hating on anyone anywhere just proves that people just have a lack of moral and respect to their fellow human being, and the fact that some people think its acceptable is just outrageous. Yeah, there’s a lot of hate in the gaming community. but most of it comes from either the pre-teens who have not learned self respect, or some extremely immature guys/gals. I really think its time to stop with all of this bullshit and give the gaming community a good light for once, instead of giving proof to the stereotypical bullshit that is shown in media.

    (Aside from the ranting, I really do enjoy the site, it puts these people and their comments where they belong, in a zoo, for everyone to laugh at.)

  • Anonymous

    “Getting used to” something is not the same as “being able to handle” it, the former implies a resigned/forced acceptance of the situation. If I tell someone to “get used to” something, what I’m basically saying to them is, “look, this is the way it’s always been, and there’s nothing you can do about it. You should simply accept it and move on.” And no, no one should accept being abused.

    I brought up the fact that you can use avatars of a different gender, so you can see how other people would treat you differently in game. Since you mentioned you weren’t sure if female gamers actually received worse treatment than male gamers, I just suggested a way to experience the difference yourself.

    Personally, I don’t assume the gender of the player, at all. Nor their orientation, etc.

  • Anonymous

    Just wanted to give my opinion back to a fellow male gamer(who’s not an ass). I agree with you on many of the points that you’ve brought up. I also disagree slightly with a few but opinions vary.

    I totally agree that there is a difference between smack and abusive messages. Both women and men receive smack talk but you say that women receive most of the abuse. I agree with this but also think that men get abused as well. I’ve stood up for my fellow gamer(both male and female) being smack talked. I’ve also been smack talked myself.(who hasn’t?) If it ever passes the point of smack talk it becomes another monster that as you described abuse: “There is no defense for this behavior.”. I’m not saying that this is worse than the abuse that women receive. I’m more or less just adding a third point to your paragraph. Hope you don’t mind.

    I would never think to say that anyone needs to be more thick-skinned when it comes to abuse. As for what you are saying about males not understanding, I disagree. I do understand. I’ve never(and I mean never) been on the abuser side of it but have been on the other. I’ve had girlfriends and friends(females) that I have defended time and time again because some asshole decided that he wanted to send a degrading/pervy/whatever have you message to said female and didn’t quite get the message when the said female told him to leave her alone. My friends and I would usually play “Lazertag” with Gamertag, following him around in game and killing him or whatnot. Might not have been the greatest choice to remedy the situation but it usually worked. That might be because after we did that we would report him. After me and my friends would get about 20-30 bad reps on him(or close to that) we’d check back later to see that most of them were given a 1 month ban.(I haven’t done this for a few years now. Started back in my Halo 2 days. lol)

    I’m not looking for high-fives or “props” or whatever these youngsters reward each other with these days, I’m just giving my opinion.

  • http://student20productions.wordpress.com Eric Waters

    I didn’t say that we, as males, couldn’t empathize or take action. In fact, I specifically indicated that males should be taking action against “this sort of douche-baggery”. I stated that because we personally don’t experience specifically gender-based abuse on an almost daily basis, we can’t understand what it’s like to go through that.

    Basically, I’m saying I don’t really know what it’s like to be a woman – in or out of the gaming community. I can make observations, I can listen, I can try to understand, but until I spend decades actually experiencing this sort of abuse, I can’t really understand what it’s like to go through it.

    The same thing applies to being black in America (and a lot of other places), being a homosexual, and a variety of other experiences that are simly not open to me: I can empathize, I can listen, I can try to fight against it, but I can’t know what it’s like.

    I stand by my statement.

  • Anonymous

    I wasn’t trying to argue. I’m not trying to say that my opinion is better than yours and if I came across that way I apologize.

  • http://student20productions.wordpress.com Eric Waters

    I’m sorry – I wasn’t trying to be argumentative; I was merely defending my position. I was trying to re-express my opinion with more detail, so that you could better understand where I was coming from; looking back, I guess I was being kind of a jerk – I apologize.

  • Anonymous

    “…no one should accept being abused.”

    It’s very hard to disagree with that statement. I’m sincerely surprised that this is how I was interpreted.

    I suppose I also feel that what is considered “abuse” is a matter of perspective… Especially when it comes to the verbal type. Really, it only becomes abuse if the victim interprets it as such. If the victim doesn’t interpret an abuser’s words as abuse, then it isn’t abuse… And they’re no longer a victim… They’re just someone observing someone else trying to be an asshole. At worse, the situation becomes an inconvenience, much like cleaning out the spam in your email account.

    I want the culture change for the better. Hell, I want the world to be rid of bullies and discriminators. But my motivation isn’t really due to personal hardship. I suppose I sometimes think of how much shit I had endured growing up, but I’m fine now. My motivation these days is mostly idealism. Sexism and racism is ridiculous and evil and I don’t want it to exist.

    “I just suggested a way to experience the difference yourself.”

    Oh. I’ll play games as male or female avatars. I’ll roll up female characters in RPGs. My male friends will make female characters. I’ve never been treated differently just because of my avatar. My friends haven’t either. I have heard, however, of guys being treated differently when they made female characters in older games like Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies. I think the culture has changed since then… Guys would make female characters to take advantage of the situation. Girls would make male characters to avoid unwanted attention. I think everyone is much more savvy now and they need more than just a avatar to contemplate the gender of another player.

    “I don’t assume the gender of the player”

    “Assume” may have been too strong of a word. I don’t let this assumption affect how I interact with the players. I means that if I had to bet on whether or not any given player was male or female, I’ll put my money on male.

  • Anonymous

    It’s no big deal. I’m just glad we could keep it civil. Most guys I have run-ins with can be really defensive and argumentative. Glad to see another that goes against the norm. Thanks for keeping your cool. I can be difficult to get along with sometimes.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VYSCYD4AO2RVYJYTHFUK3GGGWA Meilin

    Ahem. Dear Haters,

    You saw your own message on this site, didn’t you?

    There, there. Don’t be too upset. At least you are providing entertainment to awesome people. :)

  • http://pensiveharpy.blogspot.com/ Pai
  • Anonymous

    Considering I as a female sit beside my fiance on his console to we both get to see and hear the crap the other gets I can say that, in my personal experiance, what I get is worse than what he does.
    I made my gamertag and avatar pic gender neutral because I used to get so much crap, so now only my halo spartan is female. I also don’t do much in game talk. Usually party chat or if I am with people I know and like. When playing he will messages like “you stupid fag I assasinated you 4 times.” While the messages I get are more “you are such a stupid bitch and shouldn’t be playing games. You are so stupid. I will find you and rape you and your whole family. Don’t try to stop me because no one will believe a fat ugly slut like you.”
    No I haven’t sent anything in to this website, but I do avoid, and report, and try to go on. I can handle normal trash talk, and I have been known to throw it back at people, but some of the things I get are way beyond that.
    I also find that a lot of the worst things people say aren’t sent in text that makes it easy to show others. I get a lot of voice stuff and a lot of it is in game. I also find I get a TON of friend requests that he doesn’t (as is the case when we play with co workers where one is female and one isn’t). A lot of people tend to FR the female before the game even starts and they don’t do that to the guys in the group. I am not saying that is abuse, just proof that female (or at least female seeming) people get more attention in games whether they seek it out or not.
    I am also not trying to say that others don’t get this kind of crap (men, different races, or sexual orientations.) But these specific posts aren’t about those things. If people who recived those messages wanted to, they would have just as much right to point it out and try to do something about it as I, or anyone else does.

  • Anonymous

    I for one feel the urge to apologize for my fellow male’s horrible behavior toward you(and any other woman). As I’ve said in other comments on this site I have been in a situation(similar to what your husband goes through when he plays with you) where a friend(woman) is being harassed because she is female. It’s not because she sucks in game. It’s not because of something she did. It’s just because she’s female. I never stood for this kind of behavior while I was there.(see other posts for countermeasures)

    While I absolutely hate this kind of behavior and would love to see it brought down to a more reasonable level(there will always be assholes) I do find that this site could be the start of it. Plus you get a laugh out of it at the same time. I really hope you come back and maybe even send in a post if something ever happens.(which sorry to say this but I’m sure it will:( )

  • Anonymous

    I appreciate your comment. I know that my fiance feels much the same way as you do. He also finds this site quite funny.
    I also wanted to say that I didn’t post that comment for pitty or attention seeking. I just wanted to give an example of times where I have been able to see a clear difference in how male and females are treated. I also know that things like that are not the case all the time, or everytime, just this one example :)

  • Anonymous

    Nor did I take your message for that. I just felt that urge to comment. I believe this is your first time commenting on the site. Take it as sort of a welcome reply. ^_^

  • Anonymous

    “I also wanted to say that I didn’t post that comment for pitty or attention seeking. I just wanted to give an example of times where I have been able to see a clear difference in how male and females are treated.”

    I didn’t get the impression that you wanted pity or attention. It’s very appropriate to share these stories here. I appreciate your candor.

  • Anonymous

    Nothing cracks me up more than men saying women need to “grow a thick skin.” HILARIOUS. I’d just love to know the last time those guys purposely wore loose clothing so not to attract attention, or had a group of guys follow them 3 blocks while asking them to suck their dicks, or had a man stare at them on the bus while touching himself, or felt unsafe alone because they were male in public, or crossed the street and kept their head down because a group of men was standing in their path and were definitely going to stare and say something and possibly even grab them, or had the mental fight between speaking up against someone who is making sexually threatening remarks or ignoring it because both would cause the harasser to become more abusive and you just want to get home.

    I read a study the other day about rapes in the military and they found that men suffered worse in the aftermath of rape than women because women mentally prepare themselves their entire lives for such violence and men cannot imagine it happening to them. Which doesn’t surprise me – look at all those dudes screaming DONT TOUCH MY BALLS at the TSA. Try living your life every day afraid someone is going to grab you. Or dudes beating up gay guys because “he hit on me” or hiding because one might (HOW AWFUL). But please, tell us more about that thick skin. Please let us know that it’s “not that bad” because our small female minds can’t make the distinction.

  • Anonymous

    All of those things are terrible, but none of that stuff happens online.

  • Anonymous

    Same harassment, different venue.

  • Anonymous

    I think the fact that the threat of escalation from harassment to harm in real-life, and the fact that you can’t go further than harassment online, makes the differences between the two like night and day.

    People who intentionally make others fear them is exactly what makes someone evil.

  • Anonymous

    You think that based on what? Your personal experience with being harassed for being female? Yes, you can feel threatened and unsafe and afraid by online harassment. You “thinking” it’s different does not make it any less so.

  • Anonymous

    I think that based on the physical impossibility of being able to leer, grab, grope, strike, stab, shoot, maim, kill, or rape through an Xbox or World of Warcraft.

    Can you please explain to my weak man brain why someone would feel unsafe with harassment in online games?

  • Anonymous

    Because you have never experienced the type of harassment I’m talking about. Or are you suggesting that my weak female brain can’t tell the difference when it’s happening to me? Or do you only believe in conjecture?

    When I’m harassed on the street because I’m female in public, I don’t believe that I am going to be raped right there. That doesn’t make me feel any less safe or fearful. When someone sends me 15 emails in a row calling me a cunt on xbox because I’m female in public, I don’t believe that I am going to be raped right there. That doesn’t make me feel any less safe of fearful.

    Like I said before, same harassment, different venue.

    (btw you underestimate the power of the internet. have you never heard of 4chan? I’ve had dudes on the internet send pictures of their cock to my work email or attempt to hack my facebook. It’s harassment.)

  • Anonymous

    @ogre,Missdk,
    some background about me so you can decide if I’m showing any prejudice:

    I’m an African american Male
    I’ve read through most of these comments, and the argument as a whole leads me to believe in FUoS even more.

    One thing you have to understand is, no matter how much you bitch and moan, it won’t change the world around you.
    If you get into an argument with someone, Even if you have SOLID FACTUAL EVIDENCE against their point. How likely do you think they are to conceding the fact that they are wrong? People don’t usually enter an argument anticipating that they might gain a new viewpoint. few people debate in order to gain perspective, so don’t bother with that shit.

    People like to think that they base their actions on logic. but where does this logic come from? when you’re an infant you learn on a basic level…like computers: 1′s and 0′s. everything you do as a baby, your parent will either say, that’s Bad, or very Good! All the things you learn as a kid will shape your logical mind later on.

    [with that said....]

    The reason why I enjoy FUoS is because they created this site, not so that they can create a venue for discussion, [although we have that privilege on here]
    it is used to subconsciously condition the people that message ridiculous shit to girls into not doing that anymore. [They're essentially becoming their mother's again. haha]

    [don't get me wrong, this may or may not be their genuine agenda with this site, I truthfully didn't care enough to read the "about" section. but regardless of what they wanted with the site, the fact is is that the results are congruent]

    it’s like shock therapy, if every time you take a bite of a sandwich you get shocked, you will have a negative association with sandwiches, and therefore not want to eat them anymore.
    The same goes for FUoS! this site’s popularity will probably grow exponentially. And the result is going to be that a number of racist, sexist, and crude people will continue to message weird stuff to other players [biting the sandwich] and the recipients are going to keep posting their stuff up on this site [giving them a shock]

    in the end the Maker/Makers of FUoS are the smartest ones in the room, because they aren’t whining about an issue, they took it into their own hands to solve it.

    ^^^
    [....now they get to solve that issue while enjoying the irony in how the very idiots that they post about try to state their case using the same infantile wit that got them in trouble in the first place. that's my favorite part. heheh]

    [Truth]

    P.S. I think people should even start to record some of the chat stuff that people are spewing as well….well…actually, that might be a bit graphic…

  • Anonymous

    I used “weak male brain” because you put quotes around “think” as if I used to word ironically instead of trying to be polite. You made the suggestion that I could not think.

    I hear that you feel unsafe because of the comments. If it’s not because you think you’re going to be raped or some other harm will befall you, then why do you feel unsafe because of these comments? I am genuinely trying to understand.

    People really should not use your real name on the internet. Especially on Facebook. Well, especially anywhere, really. It’s so easy to lead a trail back to someone if people aren’t diligent about keeping themselves protected. I really wish that identity protection on the internet had a greater emphasis in our culture.

    If I were you, I’d make a new online persona. Make a new email address to go along with it. And never use my real name. I’d go as far as making a new Facebook log in… I’d even make it a third persona– don’t use my real name, but don’t use my regular internet moniker either. Never do stuff where I list personal information, like where I went to school and such. Make it super private so only my friends can see my info and posts. Only friend people I know personally. And delete my old Facebook account (and actually deleting it is pretty hard to do, because Facebook are dicks like that.).

  • http://twitter.com/russacky James Russack

    The point about just shrugging off an insult is erroneous. I myself am quite resilient to the often disgusting attitudes that come about from the, and pardon my language, ‘Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory’ see:(http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/). This does not mean that other people have such an easy time dismissing such things. It is a lack of empathy that causes this and other such problems.

  • http://profiles.google.com/chris.kronen chris Kronen

    Unfortunately stupidity is everywhere. The internet, and online gaming breed stupidity through the anonymity. Everyone takes some shit on the internet, whether male or female. From what I’ve seen women get hit with sexism and fascism, while men get hit with emasculating comments. We need to spread a message: that just because we can’t see your stupid face, doesn’t give you the right to act like a complete ass on the internet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Dixon/625471709 Paul Dixon

    To finally hone something for the idiots. Rage quitting, trash talking, sure those things are there in online gaming. It’s not pleasant, this blog isn’t about crying over and drumming up attention over someone being mean with trash talking; It’s the sexist attitude and sometimes violent sexual connotations that the abuse takes on, that suddenly because it *is* a women on the receiving end that the trashtalk has to contain sexual content. Arguing that trashtalk existed and ergo it’s okay to be offensive with sexual overtones is idiotic. There is a subtle difference. I think most of the women gamers who have submitted have trash-talked and been given a heck of abuse without been too overly bothered, but the line of because you are a women you get these specifically tailored sexually exploitive behaviours thrown at you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=654743589 Michael Lindsay

    Can’t say I’m surprised by the hatemail. If there’s one thing anonymous cowards hate it’s being put on display.

  • Anonymous

     the are always saying: “being a chick doesn’t make you special”, as far as i know, “we” men… well… those men are the ones who makes a girl special, in a bad way in this case.

    I have been cursed a lot of time playing online, a loooot of times, but not as harsh like you.

    Also i havent seen cases where men are getting flooded with messages of “i want to fuck you, or have sex, or a bj”, but when they do, they are always playing.

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