creeeeper

he doesn’t seem to get that a lack of response means NO!

attempt #1

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attempt #2

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attempt #3

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  • Cerise W

    Poor boy.

  • Jenndar

    Aaaaaaawkwaaaaaaard

  • Pete

    I can understand posting all of the crap jerks are sending you but this guy is just sad and pathetic and I think it’s mean to be making fun of him.

  • rawr-dinosaur

    LOL hilarious. I’m so glad you are posting this stuff. I play with douche bags like this every day, but i’m male though (so I don’t get it nearly as bad as you would). I have absolutely no sympathy for the people that send you creepy, disrespectful, and hateful stuff.

    Keep up the good work. And remember, there are good guys on PS3! Look me up for Black Ops sometime – id: rawr-dinosaur (nothing creepy – i’m happily married)

  • Jen

    I dont think this files under creepy. He is not stalking or anything, he is just asking politely. Although I get how you feel getting asked this ten times a day.

  • Cella

    Eww eww eww…

  • Ben

    What a bitch. The least you could do is tell him no.

  • JonelB

    Sometimes, in those situations, if you reply with, “no thanks” you get back A.) rage or B.) the assumption that they just need to keep messaging you, and you’ll agree to it…eventually.
    So no, silence is definitely better when dealing with someone who’s obviously a creeper.

  • marley

    LOL he sounds gay lol…. i was being a little nosey….. KILLER!!! ahahahaha LOL GAY!

  • http://judithbutlertron.tumblr.com/ Socratic Method Man

    Yeah, aww, poor guy making inappropriate social advances based on the fact that she’s a vagina-haver who’s voice he’d “love to hear”! Also, he checked, and she lives in New Mexico! There’s nothing like doing a little research on someone of interest to you solely because of their hypothetical parts rather than any kind of, you know, social interaction.

    It is, of course, a woman’s born duty to nurture pathetic waifs and strays, and midwife these infantile social graspings into the wider world of adult social uses based on the fact that, as someone with a vagina, they are naturally nurturing. Because women nurture. They all secretly want to replace your mom.

    Here’s a quick quiz for the “aww, why are you so MEAN.” guys posting here: if you received these messages from a man, phrased this way, how would you respond? Even assuming you didn’t have a homophobic shit fit, do you think people would call you a mean bitch for not responding?

    If not, where do you get off assuming that all women, all the time, are obliged to give any man the time of day just because he’s interested?

    What’s that? I can’t hear you over your gender prescriptivist garbage!

  • http://judithbutlertron.tumblr.com/ Socratic Method Man

    haha yeah because socially awkward people on the internet who beg to hear a hypothetical woman’s voice are famous for being really good with “no means no”, good fucking call.

  • http://judithbutlertron.tumblr.com/ Socratic Method Man

    yo, i’m pretty sure someone begging to hear a woman’s voice isn’t gay.

  • C

    No one thought she was mean for not responding, just mean for posting it online to make fun of.

    Also, your anger and bitterness is hilarious. I would love to subscribe to your newsletter.

  • me

    This guy makes a friendly attempt for a conversation, and what does he get? Ignored + posted on the internet

    That explains why all the other screenshots are calling u a bitch :-)

  • Blah Blah

    First of all, it wasn’t that inappropriate. He didn’t really go beyond “hey I wanna talk”. Second of all, if your a straight guy trying to kindle somethign, the whole vagina thing is /kind of a fucking requirement/. That is such a cop out. No shit he’s going to hit on a girl if /he’s attracted to the goddamn sex/. There is also the fact that XBOX Live profiles have a “location” option, where you can give your location. So the “research” was probably him seeing that in the process of sending a message. Yeah, the guy was being a bit silly and awkward. He wasn’t being a dick, he wasn’t being a pervert, he wasn’t being a weirdo. And no one said she HAD to do anything, including him. He apologized and it would seem he let it go after that. People like other people. They like to gain friendships. They like to create relationships. It’s a base human trait.

    And yeah, posting some shy message from an awkward guy is pretty shitty. If someone takes the time to send me a message on Xbox Live, or anything else, even if it’s for something like “I liked the sound of your voice”, I respond. I’ve made a few friends that way. And if I don’t, I at least don’t post them being “pathetic” on the internet in a place clearly created to ridicule him.

    Anyway, the moral of my message is you clearly have some issues with gender bullshit and you need to get over it. And possibly your self.

  • who cares

    So you say “no thanks” and if any issues persist, you report and block. It’s not a DIFFICULT process. You can go ahead and be lazy, but unless someone is being blatantly dickish (which this guy certainly wasn’t) your being at least a bit of an ass by just ignoring it.

  • Andrew Ryan

    I have to agree with the others who have said it was mean to post this. The guy is totally ignorant of social norms, but not threatening or stalker-ish if he stopped after the third message. The monotone voice actually kinda suggests Asperger’s or something on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum, which would suggest that he might not even realize he sounds creepy. If I were in your shoes I’d probably block him, but I wouldn’t post it online and encourage people to mock him.

  • Gamer12

    A “lack of response” doesn’t mean no. “No” means no. A lack of response could mean you’re even more shy than him, which would constitute the multiple messages he was sending.

  • http://judithbutlertron.tumblr.com/ Socratic Method Man

    He wasn’t being a bit silly and awkward, he was being creepy and persistent. What kind of universe are you living in where it’s ok to approach someone and tell them you’d “love to hear their voice” (not “i loved” but “i would love to”) based solely on the fact that they might be the right gender for you to be interested in them? And what makes it ok to keep sending messages when they do not respond?

    I mean, just so you’re with me on this one, you’re aware that “I am interested in you because I think you may have a vagina that is geographically near me, and that’s good enough” is not a compliment, right?

  • http://judithbutlertron.tumblr.com/ Socratic Method Man

    Well, it’s worth showing that creepiness can be a lot more subtle than telling someone you’re going to come to their house, cut their tits off, and ram them up their fat ugly bitch pussy.

    The guy was not invited to make this move. In the realm of social interaction, this had all of the charm and warmth of being cold-called by a telemarketer.

  • agreed

    Agreed. I was reading through these and wondering what constituted all the “your a bitch” messages. Now I know.

    I’ve been on XBL long enough to know that people won’t send unsolicited messages calling you names unless you’ve gone out of your way to grief them in some way. All the name calling isn’t just a female thing either. It goes with the territory of playing competitive games online.

    Still its all uncalled for and I was rooting for this person until I read this post. The guy is only a creep because you call him a creep. Someone with more tact than yourself might refer to him as socially inept and not deserving of ridicule. You have pretty much negated whatever message you are trying to send with this blog by being a heartless bitch in your own right.

  • Matt

    I agree that this is not an appropriate post. He might be socially awkward, but doesn’t sound hateful in the slightest – it’s disproportionate to put him on a site like this when he hasn’t said anything remotely like “fat, ugly or slutty”. Posting this harms your reputation – now you look unfair.

  • Donk

    I agree with the general sentiment in this thread. It may have been unsolicited, but it was hardly offensive/menacing. This is my first time on the site (linked from joystiq), and I was moments away from passing the link around. This post just seems out of place and petty. For me, it contradicts the general feel of the blog. I guess that the saving grace is that at least the gamer’s name wasn’t included? The tongue in cheek nature of the other posts is great, but this one gives us a peek behind the curtain. Perhaps a lot of the other submissions were more solicited than we’re being shown?

    Other than that… neat blog.

  • DrD.

    I’m probably going to be the only guy in the room to agree that if I got this and I was a girl. I’d be a little fucking creeped out. He even says in the last one that he was JUST trying to get a voice message from her so saying No to any of those would have ended up encouraging the guy.

  • GW

    This loser has the nerve to try and have a conversation with a female without even calling her names or trying to hurt her psychologically? What a terrible male he must be. Let’s all make fun of him and his pathetic attempts at hormone-driven civility. And doesn’t he know that women HATE men who don’t give up immediately after failure? I hope you’ll all join me in laughing at such a pathetic display of non-offense.

  • IFO

    I don’t see how 3 messages is overly persistent, unless it went further than that. it easily could have been him not knowing if the first one went though, and then trying to make up fro sounding desperate in the third one.

    Whats the difference between “id love to hear your voice” and talking to a random woman on the street and saying ” id love to get to know you better” sure they are both awkward since theres no previous connection, but it doesn’t make the guy some pervert.

    I agree its a little creepy, but they guys just pathetic and looking anywhere he can for a connection. That doesn’t mean she has to sympathize with him or care at all, just ignore it instead of putting it up for the world to ridicule.

    I think the main point is he shouldn’t be shoved in with all the idiots (for lack of a stronger word) on this site.

  • Confused

    I missed the part where he called you fat, ugly, or slutty. Or where he was rude to you in any way. What is this doing here?

  • Socratic Method Man

    Did you just play the “she must have been asking for it” card?

    Really?

    Did you just do that?

  • Socratic Method Man

    Or you could just not answer the guy and then add him to a list of creeps, for being creepy.

    Do you not get this site or something? Maybe you should go start a site on Nerd Social Projects where you capture text, image, and voice recordings of guys who “mean well” and “just need a little help”, and you could stop pretending like anyone owes this guy something for making it to his teens but not knowing how to start a fruitful conversation with another human being.

  • gsj

    i’m a little drunk, so let me break it down for y’all

    let’s say you’re at a party. some dude comes up to talk to you, but for whatever reason (you have a boyfriend, you’re a lesbian, you’re just not interested for the myriad of reasons that people just aren’t interested). you pull an “uhh lemme grab a drink,” which can honestly be verbal or non verbal, and expect him to pick on the fairly obvious social cue that he’s not interested. you’re a girl. a girl with boobs even. you’re used to trying to navigate social cues from guys to figure out that they’re not interested, because guys aren’t supposed to have to let girls down gently. and because you know that guys you don’t know whatsoever and therefore have no stake in your emotional wellbeing have absolutely no responsibility to be nice to you, and therefore silence usually means no.

    but this guy follows you around for the rest of the night, and he’s so persistant that you are afraid when he does say no, he’ll get angry.

    i know that gaming is not as immediate or as threatening as being at a party, but that principal still holds true. this guy sent three messages when this girl didn’t say ANYTHING. who knows what he’ll do when she says no?

  • entropicflux

    from the context given here, we really don’t know what this dude’s motivations are. he could just be very, very lonely and looking to hear anyone’s voice. we don’t know if he’s sent messages like these to other people.

  • Bhazor

    “Whats the difference between “id love to hear your voice” and talking to a random woman on the street and saying ” id love to get to know you better” ”

    Nothing, they’re both incredibly creepy and assume women’s only role is to please men.

    “but it doesn’t make the guy some pervert.”

    Oh really?

  • MotherFuckingSocrates

    Well I know its xbox live, but people don’t usually right out call someone a bitch for no reason. Usually its a response to something they’ve done or said. I’m trying to use the Socratic method a bit here, you know a form of inquiry and debate between individuals with opposing viewpoints based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to illuminate ideas.

    Which you clearly aren’t doing, or even using the most basic of logic as I had to spell out for you.

    Look at how many commrents disagree with you. You’re clearly in the wrong. No one says you have to nurtue the socially awkward lame fags that message you. You certainly don’t have to emasculate (if thats possible lol) them on the internet, either.

    All your posts smell of bra burning angry lesbian. And that sucks because it destroys any kind of coherent message you might want to send with this blog.

    If you’d get off your high horse and examine yourself instead of violently reacting every time an evil penis monster (guy) says hi to you, the world might be a better place.

  • ghostfinder

    Holy shit, this guy’s skype name is “ricky9123″ HE MUST BE STOPPED

  • Ferid

    All the people defending this guy need to seriously rethink their stance. Granted, he’s not being a dick, but he is definitely being creepy. How is what he did any different then if I just found a female name in the phone book that lived near me and called them just to hear what they sounded like?

  • LOL

    That guy is sad… At least should have talked to her on text chat first…

  • Random dood

    The first voice message was actually pretty innocent, but when you get information about the person and says you want to hear their voice, it gets kind of creepy. I think he would’ve been better off just saying that he would want to talk to you or something. It’s pretty much the same, but sounds less creepy.

  • Tristan

    I think the reason a lot of us are jumping to his defense is due the similar blunders we’ve all made at some point during social maturation. But just because many of us have been in that position, it doesn’t justify it. It’s a mistake, one we hopefully learn from, and maybe if they read this, someone will learn from his mistake as well.

  • PWNERD

    This can all be solved with a voice message reply of the “*SLURPSLURPSLURP* Oh god it’s all over my body~” Soundboard.

  • Corey Compton

    Hes got game, all of us men should aspire to be like him.

  • Cydonia

    I think what some of the folks posting here are missing is that this sort of thing happens 20 times a day if you’re remotely feminine-seeming online. It’s a guy basically saying “I think you might be female and would like to hit on you, but I want to hear your voice first to make sure you’re not a guy.”

    Speaking personally, it’s something I get very, very sick of and I don’t consider it friendly, sweet or anything else warm and cuddly. Given said woman has made no effort to court this guy, I’d say testing her gender is not his job.

  • Zen

    it appears all arguments in this thread are based on perspective. some people dont find “creepy” what others do find creepy. and you cant attempt to know what this guy’s intentions were (though obvious as they may have been) because you cant know what he’s actually thinking, or what his actual intentions were. And you cant flip balls and overcomplicate every little thing that people do that you may not like. if he /was/ being creepy and he didnt mean it in sincerity, then in a spectrum of things that are important in life, id say that this isnt really worth giving two shits about, because its not like he’s really going to do anything over Xbox live.

  • Schnitter

    Pssst.
    You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

  • Schnitter

    I love how all the neckbeards come crawling from under the woodwork to defend this guy. I have the suspicion that they all did something like him and don’t want to be called out on their creepy ways.
    No one cares about your intentions. If you don’t get a reply after the first time, STOP. It is not hard.

  • denelian

    tell ya what. go make a new profile, and set it up as female.

    sit back and react in AWE at all the random dudes who send you MULTIPLE messages just like this.

    then think about WHY they’re sending them.

    i’ll tell you what my husband told me: these are guys who are horny or otherwise looking for female attention, but they’re also pretty homophobic. so they DEMAND that you TALK to them, so that they can be SURE they’re talking to someone who is female, and not male – because if a guy tricks them into thinking he’s female, and they cybersex or whatever, original dude freaks, questions his orientation, etc –

    they DEMAND that we PROVE they we’re female. if we *DO* prove it, guess what happens?
    solicitation after solitication followed by MORE solicitation – and saying “no, thanks” leads to the continual “you’re a bitch” and worse remarks. and block ONE guy doesn’t block all his friends [or alternate accounts] and it’s NOT WORTH EVEN RESPONDING ONCE.

    this SPECIFIC guy may or may not have follow that INCREDIBLY COMMON pattern – but he followed the start of it. it’s rude “talk to me so i am assured that you do actually have a vulva and vagina before i hit on you, because if you DO possess a vulva and vagina, i have every right to hit on you, even if YOU DON’T WANT ME TO. if you didn’t want to be hit on, why are you playing a video game?”
    the idea that we might be playing a game because we LIKE playing video games is apparantly completely impossible to the jackasses.

  • Ryan

    Nobody ever ‘means’ to be creepy, creepiness is in the eye of the beholder. If someone doesn’t do the con properly, they’re creepy.

  • JeepersCreepers

    So what if they’ve done something like him?

    Here I’ll paint a nice aim cross on myself for you, I’ve done something similar, nothing intentionally creepy, but turned out to be pretty creepy when I sat back and saw the big picture of what I had just done. Of course nobody wants to be creepy, nobody want to be exposed as creepy, the defends of him isn’t about whether he’s creepy, it’s about whether he deserves the same public ridicule as some misogynistic prick who’s insulting and hateful.

    Sure he’s creepy, but really he’s not that creepy, if anything he’s sad, and comes of desperate, but what he does not come of as, is Malicious.

    If this guy is anything similar to what I was, he’s banging his head in embarrassment about that he just send 3 voice messages, none of which was as charming or witty as he had envisioned.

    Hateful pricks who genuinely intend you to be hurtful and ashamed of what you are, yeah, I’ve got no problem with them getting exposed and laughed at, but this guy? I can’t throw him into the flames like the rest.

  • sssacken

    if i say “I love how all you flat chested lesbians come riding in here on your double dildo to mock guys and feel bettger about your selves”, i sound exactly like the guys that this site is trying to get rid of, but since you are a women (or on the same team as the blog at least), i´ts ok for you to call guys neckbeards and such?

  • sssacken

    I first thought this site was for a good cause, but after reading this post, I´m totally against this site. You are no better than the douchebags this blog is against. You think you have all the right to post whatever you want cause youre a girl and society feels bad about girls and its always the boys who is the bad guy.

    The guy was not doing annything wrong. You don’t have to take everything so personal and think he just wants to f*** you.
    And if you cant stand being a girl online then stop speeking on your microphone and change your status to a male or something. I think you’re bored and just want to look for flaws in men.

  • liberalmanhatinghairyleggedfeminazi

    Seriously?

    Socrates Inquiry?

    FAIL. FAIL. FAIL. FAIL.

    Hey, entitled douchbag go back and take course in logic 101.

  • Tristan

    WOW

    Can this comment go up on the blog? You should really think about what you’re saying, and if you already have, then this should definitely go up on the blog. You’re only justifying what this website stands for if you really believe that. And if your intent is harmless, then you and the gentleman in this post really need to learn what your mistake is.

    She doesn’t care if he wanted to marry her, screw her, or buy her a coffee, she was creeped out, so it ended up here. This isn’t your blog, you can’t tell the writers/submitters what they should and shouldn’t find creepy. Nor can you define the moral lines that condemn posting someone’s alias on the internet.

  • Gement

    This combined with the comments on the previous post is clarifying something for me. This site is about building empathy. When I first listened to this post, I reacted with “gahhh, creepy creepy creepy” and “poor inept noob’s gonna sink into the floor if he finds this post” simultaneously. That’s right, folks, I can find it creepy and know he didn’t mean it to be creepy all at the same time!

    As can the poster. Read back to the scathing, scathing text accompanying these sound files: “CREEEEEPER: he doesn’t seem to get that a lack of response means NO!”

    That’s the whole post. Dude doesn’t get it. This is creepy. Everyone can learn something here.

    If you didn’t understand how men could be so lonely and inept as to end up jerks on the Internet, now you can understand that better. If you didn’t understand how women could find requests like this intimidating or creepy, now you can understand that better.

    The person in the sound recording wasn’t “thrown into the flames” or accused of malice or made fun of by the poster. He was documented as someone who doesn’t get it. Because he doesn’t get it.

    If you don’t get that, you don’t get it either.

  • Gement

    And before someone gets on me for gender essentialism, men = “some subset of the group of humans who identify as men” and not a presumption that all members of any group of people are alike. Ditto women.

  • Jen

    First, let’s be clear that it’s not a woman’s duty to respond to anyone on XBL or IRL. It doesn’t matter who the person is or why they’re contacting her, they are not entitled to a reply.

    Second, responding to unwanted communication DOES NOT make it stop. Any response at all, no matter how negative, is typically seen by the man as encouragement to continue. The fact that you don’t see this is because you are a man and you have male privilege. It doesn’t happen to you, so it must not exist, right?

    If you’ve every studied psychology, you’ll know that there’s a set of conditions called delusional disorders. One of these delusional disorders is called erotomania, where the delusional individual wrongly thinks someone, usually a celebrity or stranger, is in love with them. Nothing that is said or done can sway that belief. Victims of these people are usually counseled to never, ever contact, respond or reply to them because any communication at all, even crystal clear rejection, is twisted into proof that the victim loves the delusional person.

    To a milder extent, this is what women have to deal with on a daily basis from many men they encounter. Simply for having a vagina. We are seen as objects to control and the mere fact of being female makes a lot of men think they can treat us like shit for no reason or tell us what to do or require us to respond to their unwanted attempts to talk to us. Wake up, it’s not our job to tell you no – it’s your job to stop being creepers and treat women like human beings.

  • toni

    creeper? that dude’s not a creeper! real creeper explode and destroy MY GODDAMN HOUSE! but seriously what is it with you Americans that everything is creepy to you? spiders = creepy | weird guys = creepy | and so on! i would have laughed at this and blocked him.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_N5HV4J4RI2V44K4B6E5GALBRAY Rick Goverde

    Sure, sure. Guys have to be the ones that make the first steps but when YOU’RE not interested you suddenly feel “creeped out”. WELL YOU POOR LITTLE THING.
    He’s the one that has to work up the courage to even ask this shit in the first place, if anything you should be fucking flattered that he’s interested in you.
    Instead all I see in these comments are assumptions that somehow it would encourage him to keep asking stuff, you don’t fucking know him, a clear message that you were not interested in him might have just done the trick.

    A different girl might have just even responded kindly! Instead, you’re playing the victim even though this man did nothing wrong. You make me sick.

  • Anonymous

    The first one wasn’t so terrible. A bit creepy but I felt a little sorry for the poor, socially-inept recluse. By the time he got to the whole “sorry if I did something wrong” thing, that had changed. Stalkery.

  • Anonymous

    After just the first message, I’d have agreed that he didn’t really do anything. But after “I’d love to hear your voice” it gets creepier. Still, he wasn’t really that bad. A little creepy, but at least he was nice about it.

  • Anonymous

    Just to toss in my own 2 cents, I feel she really should have at least sent a text-message saying something along the lines of “Thanks but no.” Personally I’ve had quite a number of these messages sent to me, and yes it’s creepy. Some random dude’s like “Hey I think your avatar is hot so YOU must be hot so I wanna talk to you and find out.” The first thought that always comes to mind with this is “I don’t even know you dude…” But generally I’m willing to say hi and be polite… why other women don’t do this is beyond me. The socially awkward guys are stepping out of their little ‘comfort zone’ and are taking the initiative to TALK to someone. That takes balls.

    On the other side of the coin; yes, generally if someone ignores your first message it IS a sign or form of rejection or disinterest; and yes this guy probably should have gotten the hint, hence why he’s considered creepy and has been posted on this blog. Mind you, has anyone else noticed how shy he is while talking? Obviously he’s not used to the system, aka he’s a gaming newbie. He may not be USED to the gaming social conduct, and therefore likely hadn’t realized his mistake and figured the woman was angry at him. All he wants is a friend or to be acceptable somehow to this woman, hence the repeated voice clips.

    I will give you guys this though… the wanting to hear her voice definitely crosses the creepy line… it’s like a guy saying he wants to see you bare-chested because he’s seen you with tight shirts on before. What I mean by that is, is that the guy’s seen a part of the woman – her internet or gaming personality, but has yet to hear the voice behind those thoughts. He wants that, just as a man would want to see some other part of a woman’s body should he see said part clothed in a tight material. It’s only natural to think “I wonder what’s behind that ‘shield’”…just some guys actually inquire to see what’s behind the ‘shield’.

    Long post summarized: It was both the participants fault; the woman’s for not simply sending a text-based “thanks but no” and the guy’s for simply not understanding, though I give him props for having the balls to send the messages :)

  • Anonymous

    Just to toss in my own 2 cents, I feel she really should have at least sent a text-message saying something along the lines of “Thanks but no.” Personally I’ve had quite a number of these messages sent to me, and yes it’s creepy. Some random dude’s like “Hey I think your avatar is hot so YOU must be hot so I wanna talk to you and find out.” The first thought that always comes to mind with this is “I don’t even know you dude…” But generally I’m willing to say hi and be polite… why other women don’t do this is beyond me. The socially awkward guys are stepping out of their little ‘comfort zone’ and are taking the initiative to TALK to someone. That takes balls.

    On the other side of the coin; yes, generally if someone ignores your first message it IS a sign or form of rejection or disinterest; and yes this guy probably should have gotten the hint, hence why he’s considered creepy and has been posted on this blog. Mind you, has anyone else noticed how shy he is while talking? Obviously he’s not used to the system, aka he’s a gaming newbie. He may not be USED to the gaming social conduct, and therefore likely hadn’t realized his mistake and figured the woman was angry at him. All he wants is a friend or to be acceptable somehow to this woman, hence the repeated voice clips.

    I will give you guys this though… the wanting to hear her voice definitely crosses the creepy line… it’s like a guy saying he wants to see you bare-chested because he’s seen you with tight shirts on before. What I mean by that is, is that the guy’s seen a part of the woman – her internet or gaming personality, but has yet to hear the voice behind those thoughts. He wants that, just as a man would want to see some other part of a woman’s body should he see said part clothed in a tight material. It’s only natural to think “I wonder what’s behind that ‘shield’”…just some guys actually inquire to see what’s behind the ‘shield’.

    Long post summarized: It was both the participants fault; the woman’s for not simply sending a text-based “thanks but no” and the guy’s for simply not understanding, though I give him props for having the balls to send the messages :)

  • Anonymous

    That’s not how it works, though; women learn early that saying “no” more often than not encourages a guy to just try a little harder (think Ted from “How I Met Your Mother,” and all the women he’s semi-stalked into dating him), whereas the silent treatment is both a) more effective and b) LESS DANGEROUS.

    Because rejecting a guy is dangerous. I know you don’t believe me, but it can get drinks thrown in girls’ faces, or threats, or just someone getting up in their faces going “Oh, so you think you’re such hot shit that you’re too good for me, is that it?” Ignoring is less confrontational and less “bitchy,” and so a lot of women use it.

  • Anonymous

    Hi I’m new here and I’m male.
    I don’t think what the guy did is creepy. Why not chat with him a little bit? Talking to nice guys doesn’t mean you’re getting married or something.

  • Anonymous

    Poor fella :(

    Next time just send back a “sorry no, I don’t have a mic.”
    The guy obviously didn’t have any ill intent, heck he even had the manners to appologise because he thought he might have wierded you out.
    There is no way you can compare this dude to any of the pieces of shit who rant on chicks out of their own insecurities.

    I thought the point of this site was to showcase depravity, not shyness.

  • Debra Cranford

     I agree….Don’t mock anyone.

  • Anonymous

    Wow, I missed this the first time around… I don’t think I was hanging out here, but, woo-wee, this post is a good place to make me succumb to despair!

    This post reinforces my fears that unless a woman is already interested in me, saying anything to her to try and assess such a possibility is creepy.  So I just have to know. Somehow.  I guess the way normal people do.  How do I learn that when my existence is repulsive?  It doesn’t matter does it?  It’s not your problem.  As long as I skitter out of your sight, you can continue living your lives.

    Do you folks realize what it’s like to be called a creep?  To be identified as something so intangibly-yet-obviously offensive?  There’s no clue to correct it.  No one want to help you to fix it.  You’re vermin– something less than human.  You’re something that can’t be exterminated, so you get driven to dark corners to wither and die alone.

    How many of you know what it’s like to be lonely?  I mean really lonely.  Not the, “Man, I’ve been cooped up in my house all weekend” kind of lonely, but a pervasive, default state.  The type of loneliness where it’s hard to really enjoy the brief contact you have with other people because you know it will end soon and you have no idea the next time people will want to be around you.  It sucks. It hurts. And it’s my existence.

    It’s so difficult for me to form connections with other people.  I’ve never made a meaningful connection with a woman because of my fear of saying the wrong thing and proving my creepiness.  The guy posted here did something I wish I could do.  How is anything going to get better for me if I don’t try?  Why am I a bad person for trying?  Why is it okay for me to be unloved?

    Why should I even go on living?  What’s the point? What’s waiting for me down the road besides misery?  I can’t see anything else.  Fortunately I’m reasonable enough to know that just because I can’t see something, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.  And I’m enough of an optimist to hold out hope that *something* worthwhile will happen at some point in my life.  Still, reading the comments here helps shows me why suicide makes sense.  This is a shitty feeling to have.

  • http://www.inklesspen.com Jon Rosebaugh

    Dear OgreJehosephatt: If you are feeling suicidal, please get professional help. There are suicide hotlines where you can chat with someone who cares.

    As you’ve seen on this site and probably elsewhere, when a woman says she’s not interested, she can often expect abuse in return. In the real world this can range from being called a “frigid bitch” or “dyke” all the way to actual physical abuse or sexual assault. As a result of this state of affairs, women sometimes simply decline to respond to expressions of interest. Sometimes this works better than outright saying “no”. In general, a lack of a “yes” should be interpreted as a “no”.

    In this case, we’re not calling this person a creeper because he expressed interest. We’re calling him a creeper because he “was being a little nosy” (his own words!) and found out where Jaspir lives, then says “oh hey, I live near there”. We’re calling him a creeper because he’s sending multiple messages saying that he wants to “hear her voice”. (You’ve seen many excellent reasons on this site why a woman would prefer not to use a microphone on gaming services.) Ultimately, what he’s saying is not “I’d like to know you better” but “you should do this thing for me”. That’s what’s creepy. It’s borderline stalker behavior.

    It’s okay to express your interest, OJ. But there are some key things to be aware of when you do. Possibly the most important is this: if the situation makes the woman worry she’ll get hurt if she says no, that’s not a fair situation; this is something to keep in mind in the real world as well as on Xbox Live.

    Good luck in the future. I hope you manage to make connections with people.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not going to kill myself.  I’m just saying that the comments in this thread really highlights my perception that I have little-to-nothing to live for.  It’s hard wired into me to want to “see what happens”, so despite how miserable I generally am, I continue to continue, just in case.  I also avoid making decisions with permanent consequences.

    I was also going to tell you, “even if I was suicidal, a hotline wouldn’t help.”  And that I need someone who’s “care” for me lasts longer than a phone call.  Then I thought about it and realized that I really couldn’t *know* what would happen in a call.  So I looked up the website on the link, saw that “loneliness” was enough to warrant a call, so I called.

    I gave the lady my sadsack story and she told me to get out of the house.  She actually gave me a lead for a place where they occasionally debate political issues, which sounds very interesting.  Still, she told me to pursue my interests, but I had to play less games.  She told me that I can’t go looking for someone to be with, but I can’t just wait either.  She told me that I’m someone who doesn’t try hard enough to get to know other people.

    She told me that maybe I should see a therapist.  I told her that I would find it degrading to pay for something that other people got for free from their family and friends.  She quickly corrected me by telling me it wasn’t like that because, well, it wasn’t.

    As we neared the half-hour mark, we were winding down our conversation, and she told me that the line I had called are for actual suicidal people.  She gave me another number of a line I could call once a day for twenty minutes.  As awesome as it would be to have a random person in a call center to care about me for twenty minutes a day, I don’t think I’ll be calling that line.

    “As you’ve seen on this site and probably elsewhere, when a woman says she’s not interested, she can often expect abuse in return.”

    If we’re talking about real life, I find it hard to believe that ignoring a person who was willing to physically abuse someone will reduce the chances of them physically abusing someone.

    I also know that in real life, if I ignore someone trying to directly communicate with me, no matter how uninterested I am in reciprocating, I’m considered a fucking asshole.

    If we’re talking online, then there’s a decent chance she’ll get some verbal abuse.  Perhaps she’ll trigger the wrong guy and he organizes a campaign to make it impossible for her to enjoy gaming anymore, forcing her to never game online again.  That would be fucked up.

    When a person gets labeled a creep they are then othered from the whole of society.  Creeps don’t even empathize with creeps.  Some people deserve the title.  Some people aren’t interested in empathizing with other people and only take what they can.  These are true creeps. These are the people who install cameras in public toilets.  These are the people who grope you in a crowded train.  These are people who deserve to be shunned.

    Then there are the tragic figures who society avoids through no fault of their own.  The people might look hideous or have some other inherent trait that most people find unsettling.  Perhaps they always seem dirty (even though they aren’t), or they breathe in a way that makes it seem that they’re always sick, or maybe they have that mutilated hand that gives people the willies.  These people don’t deserve to be apart from society, yet people shy from them.  And further still, at least society understand that these people shouldn’t be treated so badly and will try to pretend that a person’s strange trait doesn’t creep them out.

    And yet, even more further still, saying “that guy’s missing nose creeps me out” is at least borderline okay to say between friends, but even between friends, you’d be a fucking terrible person to labels someone as a creep because they were missing a nose.

    People treat awkward folks like they were pedophiles, rather than someone with a disability.

    I can fully accept that the things he said could creep people out, and these people are entitled to their reaction.  My issue with this is that they are willing to define him as a creeper and move on.  There is no empathy.  …no attempt at understanding.  They just label him as something less than human instead of saying, “you know, if you said ‘this’ but didn’t say ‘that’, people would respond to it better”.

    This is devastating to a person because it’s likely that a random person will represent the average person.  Their reaction to you can be inferred to be the same reaction others will have to you. You begin to think, “if this person thinks I’m creepy, who else does?  Who else would be willing to tell me?  How many people just avoid me completely?  What is it about me that’s so creepy?  Was it something I said?  I can’t ask the person who called me a creep because that would only creep her out further.  I’m a monster.”

    To bring this back to an earlier point I was trying to make, a woman ignoring an expression of interest online could result in her being excluded from the gaming community.  Calling someone a creep can result in that person being excluded from society. If my point isn’t clear, it’s way worse to be excluded from society.  In fact, an awkward person, pretty much by definition, is almost guaranteed to be much further disconnected from society than another random person.  I urge people to please have a little empathy for them like they were a human being.

    “…we’re not calling this person a creeper because he expressed interest. We’re calling him a creeper because…”

    Yes, I can appreciate how some of the things he said and how he said them were creepy.  But given his extremely timid voice, and the way he kept saying “sorry”, does he really seem like someone who just wants to take?  Does he really seem to be a predator as a true creeper is?  Has anyone tried putting themselves in his head to think of why someone would say something like that?

    First, is “being a little nosy” really creepy?  How’s that any different from “I’d like to know you better”, which you seem to cite as an acceptable theme for conversation?

    Second, I can certainly see how a stranger knowing where you live is creepy, but it’s less remarkable when your city is posted as part of your XBLA profile.  Maybe he went as far as googling the submitter, but there’s still the notion of pragmatism rather than obsession.  It makes sense to no pursue people who don’t live close to you.  And if you’re an awkward person who has difficultly with getting people to talk back to you, then maybe a quick web search saves him a whole lot of stress.

    Third, it’s easy to believe that he thought asking to hear her voice would be flattering.  It’s about demonstrating that he feels she has something he can appreciate. Saying “I’d like to get to know you better” is no different of a request, it’s just more general.  And here’s the kicker,  if he can get her on the mic, then they’ll be able to speak and normal speeds, enabling them to get to know each other much quicker!

    Fourth, do people appreciate how hard it is for an awkward gamer to find a woman they even have *chance* of connecting with?  Awkward gamers connect with other gamers. Unfortunately, they’re likely to be attracted to women and they are not so prevalent in the gaming space. So when they actually encounter a real girl who could understand their hobby, it’s like finding a glass of water in the desert.  

    There are a bunch of reasonable explanations why someone might not reply to you other than they’re ignoring you.  You need that glass of water.  It would be foolish to move on before knowing for sure it wasn’t actually water. Being able to move on to the next person after being ignored is a luxury of someone who can expect people to move on to.

    Jon, it is clearly unfair to interpret the meaning of his messages as “you should do this thing for me”.  That, and the fact that you can describe it as “borderline stalker behavior” only suggests to me what an incredibly privileged life you must have to not be able to empathize with this guy in the slightest.

  • http://www.inklesspen.com Jon Rosebaugh

    You’re treading dangerously close to PUA territory there, man. Just because a person wants a response — any response — from another person doesn’t mean he’s entitled to it. Intent doesn’t matter. (We’re not telepaths, after all.) You’ve got to learn to communicate without driving people away.

  • Anonymous

    “You’re treading dangerously close to PUA territory there, man.”

    Bullshit.  Trying to be noticed and start a conversation is no where near the same as trying to manipulate someone into having sex you.  Dressing well and being charming is the achieves the same purposes.  The only difference here is that most people are blessed enough to do it naturally and not have to try to figure it out.

    “Just because a person wants a response — any response — from another person doesn’t mean he’s entitled to it.”

    In the grand sense of things, I completely agree.  Though, as I said earlier, as a member of society, I’m considered an asshole if I ignore someone speaking to me or if I flat-out told them I wasn’t interested in speaking with them.

    I’m not trying to say that women shouldn’t try to protect themselves.  I want people to understand the cost of it.  I want to see some empathy.  It’s so easy for people to ignore someone and call them a creep because they don’t think about how it affects a person.

    If a “I’m not interested” was sent after the first message then any message sent afterward would be clearly in the wrong.  And then the submitter can ignore the messager as hard as she wants with a clear conscious.

    If we can agree that if Person A (the ignored person) can call Person B (person doing the ignoring) an “asshole” (or something along that line) once as a fair trade, then I would feel we would have come to some kind of understanding.   

    “You’ve got to learn to communicate without driving people away.”

    And how does one do that if they’re being ignored?

  • Anonymous

    srsly.

    She feels creeped on by a guy who obviously can’t take a hint messaging her repeatedly, but all you can see is the poor little rejected man and how the evil bitch is hurting him.

    ugh

  • Anonymous

    A+.

  • Anonymous

    Looking someone up and messaging her *repeatedly* to say you want to hear her voice with no other information beyond “she’s female” is not “friendly”. Please.

  • Anonymous

    lol your logic

    So I’m a straight girl, that must mean I’m automatically attracted to everyone who has a penis, right?

    right?

  • Anonymous

    The fact that you seem to think it’s normal to make conversation with someone *just because she’s female* says a lot. And the fact that he had *no other reason than her being female* to try to contact her says a lot about his motivation.

    Most of the naysayers in this room seem to be men who have never been approached by a creepy man in a situation like this and have no idea what that experience is like. Sure he’s not on the extreme end of the creepy scale but his behavior was inappropriate and enough to make someone very uncomfortable.

  • Anonymous

    “Look at how many commrents disagree with you. You’re clearly in the wrong.”

    ahahaha

    you just lost any claim to logic, right there.

  • Anonymous

    You sound entitled.

    Very entitled.

  • Anonymous

    I can’t bring myself to give props to a guy for having the “balls” to send messages to a women he knows *nothing* about other than that she claims to be a woman.

    “Hey, you say you have a vagina! Can you prove to me that you really do?”

    Like many have said, replying wouldn’t necessarily make him stop, and it’s just as likely to make it worse. She was clearly made to feel uncomfortable. I truly feel sorry for the guy if he’s shy/socially inept but it’s not any given female’s problem to make him feel better/help him/respond to him. If he creeped her out she has every right to not respond. Period.

  • Anonymous

    It’s really, really sad how true this is. Women shouldn’t *have* to put up with such shitty treatment. But you’re absolutely right that we do. D:

  • Anonymous

    I know you posted this a long time ago, but I’d really like to say something, so here’s my two cents. (I’m female.)

    Get to know a lady. Don’t go after a lady just because she’s a lady – get involved in things that help you get to know *people* (preferably in real life, not online) and cultivate friendships and acquaintanceships with the *people* who interest you. If it’s clear you are only trying to talk to someone because they have ladyparts, and that someone is also hoping to eventually cultivate a meaningful relationship, then you will come across as creepy.

    Don’t make a move towards a lady unless you actually know her a little bit and think she’s a person you might want to be with. There should be a real reason you like her besides the T&A. There’s nothing wrong with being physically attracted to someone, but enough guys out there (presumably not you, but enough) really do just want sex that if a guy approaches a woman and he only knows that she’s a woman, the woman is probably going to think “he probably just wants sex” and walk in the opposite direction. It’s not unfair or ~mean~ for women to behave this way. We are protecting ourselves.

    If you really make an effort to get to know a woman, as a PERSON, and she’s not a) lesbian b) out of your age range c) aromantic/asexual (depending on what you’re looking for etc.) or d) taken, and you ask her if she’d like to go out for coffee or whatever in a reasonable way, and she STILL calls you a creep? Then you can say she’s being a jerk. But not before. And some women are truly jerks, and others struggle with letting people down just like some men struggle with asking them out in the first place (not that that’s an excuse). But many will be kind and still want to be friends with you even if they don’t want more. And in that case? You respect her boundaries and don’t push it unless much time has passed and you have honest reason to believe her feelings might have changed. (Note: some women may not be comfortable maintaining a friendship in this situation, and that’s their prerogative. You can’t force a friendship either or claim to be entitled to it. It sucks, but it happens. Is it worth the risk to you?)

    Also: rejection sucks (I’ve been rejected too, so I know!) but it’s a part of life. Nearly everyone experiences rejection in some form – sometimes often – before finding the right person. Don’t give up on every relationship ever just because one girl rejects you. Girls are very diverse and we have a wide range of tastes and desires. Different girls are attracted to different men and want different things out of life – just like men.

    I offer this as honest advice and hope it helps you, if you haven’t already heard it from someone else. I appreciate your honesty and willingness to share your point of view. :)

  • Anonymous

    I really appreciate that you took the time to respond to me, though I kinda feel you didn’t read everything I’ve said.

    I’m gonna say something that may seem condescending, but please hear me out:

    Much of the advice you give is only good for your world.

    In the past seven years or so I’ve noticed that people are great at filling their world with people who reinforce their attitudes, ideas and habits.  It gets to the point where any idea that runs counter to the idea within one’s world is immediately dismissed as an outlier.

    It’s shocking to me how these subcultures can co-exist with each other without being cognizant of each other.  I’d go on to describe the different groups I’ve witnessed, but this response is going to be long enough as it is (I will elaborate further if you request).

    So when I say suggest that you live in your own world, it’s something that almost all people do.  It’s a tactic that has a lot of pluses, but it can be limiting in some ways.  I would guess that I’m more sensitive to these worlds that people build because there aren’t enough like-minded folks for me to have my own world.  I’ve always felt as though I was alien to this world, but it was only more recently I’ve been able to articulate why.

    All my life I’d see people do things that makes no sense, but everyone pretends that it makes sense.  Case in point: a lack of response means “no”. A lack of response could mean many things.

    To start, we don’t know how much time passed between the messages.  Was there even enough time for the submitter to listen to the message?  Perhaps the guy was hoping she hadn’t heard the first message yet and was hoping to improve upon his first message (and second message). So a lack of response could mean, “I haven’t seen your message yet”.

    A lack of response could mean, “you haven’t said anything interesting yet”.

    A lack of response could mean, “I’m interested, but I don’t quite have the time to respond yet”.

    A lack of response could mean, “Let’s see how badly this guy wants to talk to me”.

    A lack of response could mean virtually anything.

    But this guy can die and go to hell for his heartbreaking optimism and lack of telepathy.

    I’m not trying to tell people that they shouldn’t be creeped out by the voice messages.  People are entitled to their feelings.  I’m telling people that they shouldn’t label him as a creep and leave it at that.  In a post above I elaborate on what it means to be labeled a creep and why it’s awful, so I won’t reiterate all of that here.

    Still, this website is dedicated to promoting empathy and understanding towards the victims of misogyny in the gaming culture.  People here, in part, want everyone to know how even little sexist “jokes” can erode the psyche of a person.  Yet, they make little-to-no attempt of developing empathy for someone featured above.  They don’t care how damaging being outed and ostracized as a creep is.  Because, you know, they’re creeps and creeps deserve everything they get.  This is pretty hypocritical. 

    I also want to mention that I completely reject the notion that he sent these messages just because the submitter has a vagina.  I’m not saying that the submitter being a woman wasn’t a factor, but that isn’t the only factor.  They just played a game together.  This guy just encountered a member of the human race he could possibly be attracted to which he may share a connection with.  If he’s anything like me, he doesn’t form strong connections with people who aren’t gamers.  Gamers who happen to be ladies are very hard to come by, despite what statics like to say.

    And although you didn’t say this, I want to respond to some of the common responses of where men demand things from women, sexistly.  I’ll concede that this is true to an extent, but anyone who interprets these messages as examples of this has their perception severely distorted.  This is clearly not an example of a guy trying to take something from a woman.  This does not seem like the person to flip out after being rejected– you never know though, right?  So lets just treat everyone like a criminal.

    Really– what’s the worst thing that can someone do to you on XBL even if they go insane? Send you messages until you block them?  Is that so arduous that you can’t respond to someone like they were a human being?

    Again, the last two paragraphs weren’t aimed at you, but feel free to respond to them.

  • Anonymous

    Okay, my reply was getting lengthy and I didn’t even really get to respond to your message as I wanted to, so I’m breaking it into a second piece.

    “Get to know a lady.”

    How much time does it take to get to know a person?  I think a low estimate would be two-hours a day for two-weeks.  How many people can you simultaneously get to know?  Five?  Seems generous, but sure.  How many people are you around that you can devote that much time to?  Let’s pretend it’s somehow 50.

    Now, if you’re straight, you cut that number in half.

    Now lets pretend that physical appearance doesn’t matter at all (including dress style), so there’s 25 potential people to eventually become romantically involved with.

    That would take a minimum of 10 weeks to figure out if you like any of them enough to ask them out.  Let’s say that 20% of that 25 are in that pool potential partners.  That there are actually 5 people you like enough to want to be with.  Now, what are the chances that they feel the same?  There’s probably only one of the five you like that likes you back. Awesome.

    Hell, we can even pretend that all 5 of those people are interested in dating you.  If the first one doesn’t work out, do you move on to the next one?  Isn’t that weird since they all probably know each other pretty well after all this time?

    In the most favorable circumstances it takes 10 weeks to find someone you’re potentially compatible with.  And if that doesn’t work out– what then?  You have to find more people to spend a whole lot of time with.  What do you do to meet that many people?

    And all of this works against me since I don’t like meeting people.  I don’t dislike people, but very few people can hold my attention, just as most people very uninterested in what I have to say.

    I have to actively look for people with shared interests, for even a chance that I’d like them enough to date.  I don’t like most gamers as it is– awful senses of humor or woefully myopic or some other trait that doesn’t run well with me.  And I never run into girls online.  The precious few lady gamers I’ve encountered in real life tend to be already taken, or, as with most gamers, not very interesting for me.

    A woman gamer to me represents a chance for happiness.  And even these slim chances are so few and far between.

    I cannot help but feel that you’re a very fortunate lady, Raichu.  You must be surrounded with very like-minded people to try and explain the world to me as you have done.  You clearly have no idea what it’s like to be me.  Or even other people who aren’t even like me.  I would appreciate it if you tried.

    People go on dates based on pretty superficial reasons.  One of the purposes of dating is to getting to know someone. “Date” doesn’t equal “Sex”.  I see no difference in contacting someone after an XBL game than asking someone out you met at the grocery store.  At least “gaming” is a more specific interest than “eats food”.  If your way of meeting potential partners is supposed to be “the proper way”, there wouldn’t be so many women on dating sites.

    And hell: This is an extreme example, but my friend would get unsolicited numbers from girls just doing stuff like for buying something at their register. His girlfriend would verify this, almost as if she was bragging.

    It’s so narrow-sighted declare one way as the best way to meet someone.  It’s completely unfair to degrade someone who’s desperately trying different strategies if it’s not harming anyone.

    And I gotta say that I’m pretty insulted the way you seem on insisting that I dehumanize women.

    Personally, I never liked the idea of dating.  I’ve always wanted a girlfriend who was just like my friends, but a girl.  Dates seem like uncomfortable situations for me… I wear clothes I don’t like to wear. I gotta watch what I say. I have to convince someone to like me by being someone I’m not.  And then there’s the etiquette: Am I an asshole if I let her pay, or am I sexist for insisting I pay? Where is that line drawn? (I can’t know because it’s different for everyone!)

    And then what? How many dates do I go on before I feel like I’ve given them enough of a chance to know I’m not interested (I’m likely to not be interested in the lady, as I am with the majority of people).  How much time and money do I waste on this?

    I have always wanted to meet a girl just in everyday normal life, where we would naturally come together over lively debate and a love of Bruce Campbell.  That girl just doesn’t exist in my world.  I’ve been on this planet for three decades and I’ve caught glimpses of ladies like this, but it was never meant to be, for some reason or another.

    There is one choice in front of me: be more pro-active in finding a lady or die alone and unhappy.  As it is, I’m rapidly approaching the point of giving up on ever being a father.

    And I would be more pro-active in meeting women if I weren’t so terrified of being labeled a creep.

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